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Vote for Setup 1617    New Setup for Subaru Impreza Rally Car      
Setup ID
Tuner
Make
Car
Model Year
Track
Votes
Views
Horsepower
Best Lap
Date Entered
Last Modified
1617
1999
Road Setup
0
1771
466
 
03/27/2003 6:09 AM
04/01/2003 4:34 AM  
Muffler Racing Suspension Full Customize
Racing Chip Transmission Unknown
NA Tune Clutch
Front Tires T5 - Medium Flywheel
Rear Tires T5 - Medium Carbon Driveshaft
Nitrous N/A GT Auto - Wing N/A
Turbine Kit Stage 2 Limited Slip Full Customize
Intercooler AYC
Supercharger N/A VCD Equipped
Brakes Weight Reduction
Brake Controller Equipped Increase Rigidity N/A
Setup Item Front Rear Setup Item Front Rear
Spring Rate 13.6 14.6 Stabilizer 2 4
Ride Height 75 85 Brake Balance 15 13
Shock Absorbers Downforce 0.70 0.91
Shock Bound 5 8 LSD Init. Torque 10 10
Shock Rebound 5 8 LSD Acceleration 10 40
Camber Angle 2.7 1.5 LSD Deceleration 5 5
Toe Angle 0.5 -1.0
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Final Auto Set
31
ASM TCS AYC VCD
0 0 10
My first 4WD setup, but it's a succes though! :) But it has only 1 tiny problem, it has a little amount of understeer at low speeds. I don't exactly know how to remove this so i need some help about this. I'd be pleased if someone could give me some advise, thnx for considering.

Greets, Dave.

--

Updated, adjusted the Ride Height, Shock Bound/Rebound, Toe Angle, LSD Acel/Decel and TCS. Understeer is completely removed (thnx to ChevyCorvette and Fumes!).

PSN: nomeite
Joined: 02/28/2003
Last on: 07/28/2013
Setups: 79
Posts: 106
Understeer
Posted 03/27/2003 3:37 PM Post a reply Quote this post View nomeite's info
Try increasing the front accel a bit. I use 10/50/25 front lsd settings on my 4wd cars. Start with 10/25/15 and adjust to your liking. I had a set-up for this car, I think. I am going to have to check later.
gnomefromnome (forum name)

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Joined: 02/22/2003
Last on: 05/13/2006
Setups: 15
Posts: 154
Understeering
Updated 03/27/2003 4:22 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ChevyCorvette's info
Dave,

Try either softening the Front Shocks or strengthening the Rear Shocks. Change the Ride Height to where the Rear is higher than the back, like such as 75 in front and 80 in the back or something like that. Try Front Toe at -1.0 and 0.5 on the back. On LSD settings, since this car is 4WD, use alittle as possible. Saying that, I would change the front and rear Initial to 5. On Accel LSD, the front 5 and the rear 10, maybe even 5 on back. On Decel LSD, both 5. Since this car is 4WD, you won't need as much TCS, especially considering the amount of power it has. I would reduce it to 1 at least, and would try out 0. The Auto Set number for gear ratios seems alittle high because of the amount of power present, but I wouldn't know unless I tried the car. Try it out on Grand Valley, SS Route 5, or Apricot Hill and see if it redlines in the top gear on the course's longest straightaway. If it does, good job, if not reduce it until it does, and then adjust it for each track. I would also probably increase the front brake balance a touch to 13 and the rear to 11, to give alittle more stopping power . . . but that's me, I like to stop on a dime. I may even go a touch higher on the front. Since having the front higher than the back causes more weight to be shifted to the front of the car. Actually now that I go back and read all of this here, the first thing I would try is adjusting the Toe and see what that does.

Hey, don't take this as ripping the car, because I'm sure you have put in alittle time to get it to this point. I'm sure it is probably not too bad of one. Most of what I've said is things I have picked up from using setups from Fumes, which I consider to be the best tuner on the site and a guru for advice on anything having to do with setting up a car, I've applied from what I can tell from what he has said to try with each setting and also from comparing setups of his on 4WD car and what works on a 4WD car.

Tell me what you think from the suggestions and if any of it works, hopefully you will find something I have said helpful and useful (basically, I hope I don't sound like a moron here while talking).

Brett

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Joined: 11/22/2001
Last on: 10/16/2016
Setups: 267
Posts: 1460
Posted 03/27/2003 9:33 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Fumes's info
Holy xxxx!!
As if spoken from my own mouth. You're getting the hang of it Brett.

Do what Brett has mentioned. Change the Toe to his suggestion. Reduce LSD to the lowest and TCS to 0 first.

Does that clear up your understeer?

Only if you find the car oversteering too much now, would you increase TCS up until oversteering is stopped or where it's controllable.

Nomeite, your suggestion, although with good intentions, it the wrong way to go about removing understeer from a 4wd race car. LSD, transfers drive power away from the wheels that are slipping. Increasing LSD, in that case, only has the effect of masking the problem by reducing power which = slower car = less understeer. You have fixed the understeer, but that's because you now have a slower car. Change your philosophy and try going the other way. Get rid of as much LSD as possible in a 4wd car. Especially since you already have VCD at 10, that means 10% of drive power at front wheels and 90% of drive power at rear wheels, turning the 4wd into a close FR car. LSD in this case is preventing the driving power to pull the car out of understeer.

PSN:
Joined: 02/22/2003
Last on: 05/13/2006
Setups: 15
Posts: 154
Fumes
Updated 03/27/2003 10:49 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ChevyCorvette's info
It was not really hard to give suggestions on this car because I have tried many of your 4WD setups and all of them have the same basic set of principles behind them. It is then just taking those principles and applying them in each setting to this particular car. From looking and knowing how to apply these principles, by all of the setups I have tried, I understand much of the theories behind how to setup a 4WD car.

On the TCS question that I think you asked me, personally with this car I would have it at 0 just because it only has alittle over 400 ponies, which means TCS is not really needed; but for other people having it at 1 may help to get the car to handle better. To rid of excess oversteer on this car, I would not mess with TCS, but instead leave it at 0, and then adjust another setting, until the oversteer was then at a controllable level.

PSN:
Joined: 03/20/2003
Last on: 05/04/2006
Setups: 39
Posts: 84
Wow!
Posted 03/29/2003 2:03 AM Post a reply Quote this post View DarkVenom666's info
Wow, lot's o comments! Big Grin

Brett,

I already thought softening the front shocks, or strengthening the rear shocks would help but, i wasn't sure (i would have tried it out but, i don't have much free time lately!). I already thought about heightening the rear a bit but, i didn't had the time for it. LSD is something i still need to learn about. I can remove understeer or oversteer with use of LSD on a FR or MR pretty good but, a 4WD? Well, i've tried (it helped a bit though) but, it didn't seem to work as well as with FR or MR cars. As this is my first 4WD setup, it's pretty hard to work on the LSD (especially when i don't know everything about it yet.) for me. It's been my experience by increasing the rear toe, the rear loses less grip but, get's some understeer but, by decreasing the rear toe, the rear loses more grip but, get's some oversteer (correct me if i'm wrong.). I don't know anything about increasing or decreasing the front toe cause, i haven't tried it out, or didn't read about it. So, i'm pleased you started about it.

I like wide gear settings (i believe this car has only 5 gears.) so, i've set a wide gearing for it. But i'll test it on the tracks you've mentioned and adjust it if it's necessary.

I'll try everything you've mentioned and post my opinion about it (altough i'm already sure it'll work perfectly Smile )

I also believe Fumes is the best tuner around but, if i hear you talking like this .... Fumes is gonna have some competition ! Wink

Fumes,

Brett and you have almost exactly the same advice for me so, there isn't much to tell anymore... I'll try everything you and Brett have mentioned and post my comment about it (i have more free time now so, i think you guys hear from me soon!).

Greets, Dave

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Joined: 03/20/2003
Last on: 05/04/2006
Setups: 39
Posts: 84
Thnx guys!
Posted 03/29/2003 5:21 AM Post a reply Quote this post View DarkVenom666's info
Adjusted everything ChevyCorvette and Fumes told me about and it works fantastic! I've tested on Laguna Seca (understeer is completely gone!), exept the gears, i've tested those on Midfield and Apricot Hill Raceway.

I thought the Impreza had only 5 gears but, when i was driving on circuits with long straits, the 6th gear showed up! In 6th gear (on Apricot Hill.), it almost redlines, it reaches 6000 out of 7000. I think i don't have to adjust the gears, i like them the way they are but, i anyone else doesn't agree, you can adjust them to your own personal liking.

Oh jeah, before i forget. I didn't adjust the Brake Balance either cause, it already slows down pretty quick, quick enough to leave it this way (you can also adjust this to your likings if you disagree!).

I'd like to thank ChevyCorvette and Fumes for the very, very helpfull advice.

Greets, Dave.

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Joined: 02/22/2003
Last on: 05/13/2006
Setups: 15
Posts: 154
LSD and Toe
Posted 03/29/2003 12:34 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ChevyCorvette's info
On LSD, I know that on 4WD cars if it does not have it on the car, do not buy it, you do not need it. On a car like this one that does have it though and cannot take it off, as low as it can go. FR and MR cars are different than 4WD and need the higher LSD settings for better performance, especially FR cars, it helps the car by heaps. MR cars are something I would not really know as much about because I have not really tried to tune one yet, but I am sure it still needs a setting that is somewhat higher than what a 4WD would use, it may not be as much as a FR though. All that I know of what LSD really does is to help fine tune wheel spin. I'm pretty much quoting Fumes on the next couple of lines. "When accelerating around a corner, if you happen to notice the tires smoking some, increase the Accel LSD. On the Decel LSD, keep it around 10-15, because too much of it and it induces understeer." And actually by what I have read on how differentials work, is that when cornering hard or just cornering in general, is if one wheel starts to slip, the differential will cause some power from the wheel slipping to be transfered to the other wheel until both wheels then become stable(sp?) again.

I havve noticed on Toe settings that a negative figure on the front causes the car to turn into a turn better, which will help reduce some understeer. While a negative toe is used on the rear of the car, it helps reduce oversteer in a car, especially in lower speed corners . . . I really learned the effects of having the negative toe on both front and back while setting up my Opel Astra on here. A positive toe on the back, makes the car want to oversteer more because of the loss of some grip . . . I am pretty sure that is what the game says in the little thing when you are on the screen to change toe. And I am not sure exactly what a positive toe on the front does, so maybe Fumes coule enlighten us on that.

Dave, I do not think Fumes has to worrying about competition from me because I am still new to tuning really. I do not have every one of the theories down on what will help or hurt the car, I just have a general idea of what will work and what will not.

And Fumes please correct me if I am wrong on any of this, and definitely add to it if something needs to be added. Never can learn too much on how the little details affect a car.

Hope I was helpful with what I just wrote.

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Joined: 03/20/2003
Last on: 05/04/2006
Setups: 39
Posts: 84
Posted 04/01/2003 4:36 AM Post a reply Quote this post View DarkVenom666's info
I completely agree with you. You're absolutely right about the LSD. The LSD does help you fine tune wheel spin (although i still don't know how to in some cases.). I believe you're right about transfering power to the other wheel as well. I haven't read about it but, that's the only way i can think of, to help reducing/inducing wheel spin by use of traction.


4WD cars definately need low, very low LSD settings cause if it doesn't, the power pushing the car get's stronger and, since it's a 4WD, gets understeer (even when VCD is set at 10%). And FR cars do need higher LSD settings. Cause the rear wheels are the only ones that give traction, so, higher LSD means more traction, and more traction (in FR cases) means more oversteer. I never set LSD more than 5-10 as it comes stock, cause that induces understeer (and we don't want any understeer! Wink ).


That's why i always use very low LSD settings on 4WD cars, and higher LSD settings on FR cars on my setups. I really don't know much about FF cars cause, i haven't tuned one yet (but it should be possible when people like you and Fumes are around! Smile ). I'd like to create one though, it's some kind of challenge, cause that'll be my first FF car i tuned. I don't know much about MR cars too cause, i tuned only 1 (a Pagani Zonda Race Car.). And since every car handles different, it's pretty hard to give my opinion about it. It doesn't necessarely need lower LSD settings than a FR car though (please correct me if i'm wrong.). But, like i said before, i've only tuned 1 MR car so, i can be wrong about this.


I thought negative rear toe's would give more oversteer (cause of more loss in grip.) and positive would give understeer (cause of less loss in grip.). (man o man, i really have one big way to go to learn everything! Frown ).

Fumes doesn't need to worry about competition but, he is simply the best of all around here but, you are a very good tuner as well (well, alot better than me anyway Frown ).

And don't worry, you're comment did help me! Smile

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Joined: 02/22/2003
Last on: 05/13/2006
Setups: 15
Posts: 154
Hey
Posted 04/01/2003 3:25 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ChevyCorvette's info
Well now that I think about it on LSD on a MR car, between FR and MR, they are both actually probably pretty close because both get alot of rear wheelspin. Plus, it really depends on the car . . . check out Fumes, Mazda 787B setup and then compare it to his Raybrig NSX setup, big difference in LSD settings, but both setups work great (actually, I'm assuming this with the 787B, I have yet to try this setup out).

A negative rear toe helps prevent oversteer at lower speeds, such as hairpins and such, Fumes explains this pretty well in one of his F1 car setups. A positive rear toe makes oversteer, because I think the wheels slip, I'm not really sure though. A negative front toe makes the car turn into a corner easier. I'm not really sure about a positive front toe though. I know this about the negative front toe, and the negative and positve rear toe, because I have experimented with them and that is what result I get consistently.

Dave, definitely keep with the tuning, not many people actually try really hard to tune a car to get it to perform to it's highest potential. I would not say I'm that great of a tuner because I don't really try to tune cars too much, I'm not patient enough most of the time to sit and try to tune a car. Plus if I do have the patience, I rack my brain too much trying to think of what would help the car produce better times.

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Joined: 02/22/2003
Last on: 05/13/2006
Setups: 15
Posts: 154
Fumes
Updated 04/01/2003 6:49 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ChevyCorvette's info
Well I didn't even really want to try to compete with you, because on tuning I would lose and also probably on driving too . . . I'm still learning some of theories, well more of mastering them really . . . I understand the theories for the most part, just not necessarily on how to apply all of it at once. It really is alot of information because there is so much that it could possibly be to completely fine tune a car. I do agree on the fact that the both of us have a very similar driving style that it does help on my ability to learn on how to tune some.

Thanks for clearing the toe information up. I didn't really know how to explain positive rear toe, I was just taking a guess on what it did, didn't put too much thought into my guess though. Sometimes I wonder on some of the programming myself, like the GT40 Road Car . . . blah! Also thanks for putting what LSD does into simplier terms too.

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Joined: 11/22/2001
Last on: 10/16/2016
Setups: 267
Posts: 1460
Posted 04/01/2003 6:59 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Fumes's info
Don't worry, I don't see it as competition..

Fixed up the formatting in my previous post, hopefully it illustrates better.

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Last on: 05/13/2006
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Posts: 154
Very nice . . .
Posted 04/01/2003 8:33 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ChevyCorvette's info
It wasn't too hard to see to begin with, but this is much easier.

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Last on: 05/04/2006
Setups: 39
Posts: 84
Fumes, ChevyCorvette
Posted 04/02/2003 12:33 PM Post a reply Quote this post View DarkVenom666's info
Very, very much info.... Smile

Thnx for the (lots of.) info you guys gave me (and eachother!). My knowledge about tuning keeps on growing every day, when people like u 2 are around Wink ! Perfect explanations (it really helps me when i'm tuning my cars.). I'd like to thank u 2 very much....

Greets, Dave.
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