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PSN: gtvault-com
Joined: 08/27/2001
Last on: 10/13/2016
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The new Toyota 86 (JP) / Toyota GT-86 (EU) / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ
Posted 12/20/2011 4:15 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
I currently drive a 1991 Honda Prelude, which I love. It's in great shape, unmolested by ricers, and is now old enough to get looks from old school Honda fans. That said, someday it will die and need to be replaced. I think I may have found that replacement.

It's been a long time since Toyota released a car at which I cast more than a sideways glance. However, I think the new Toyota 86 (JP) / Toyota GT-86 (EU) / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ is beautiful. It has all the attributes I'm looking for: RWD, manual transmission, relatively balanced weight distribution, low center of gravity, and it's super cheap. Sure it has only 200HP, but aftermarket options will likely be many. Further, Scion has announced that they intend to make new variants of the FR-S available each model year. Hopefully those will transcend trim levels to include warranty backed suspension and performance upgrades.

The story behind the project is quite interesting, especially about how it was almost scrapped. I've read quite a few articles on its first drives. Most accounts are overwhelmingly positive. Toyota may have tweaked suspension in their variant, but what I find most interesting is that the Subaru BRZ will be the sole RWD, ahem non-4WD, car in their lineup. I personally prefer the Toyota variant from a style perspective.

I've been driving the Gran Turismo version, the Toyota 86 GT '12, released as a bonus with the 2.02 update. It's clearly not intended to be a powerhouse, but it excels at low-mid speed twisty tracks like Eiger Nordwand. The handling is superb, bone stock. What a fun car!

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Posted 12/20/2011 4:41 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Draghon's info
Scions have their own dedicated race, so comparing them to other cars is difficult at best.
Personally the best RWD cars out there for the money are the BWMs and Mustang GTs best FWD cars raced IMHO are the Coopers (being limited cause of PP) but there are others winning races right now. AWD cars I'd have to say, for the money the Lancer Evo is the best bang for the buck though I hate the new styling.... IMHO the best car to have right now is the Evo or the older R34 Skyline depending on where you live... the driving of cars on this game are NOTHING like real life
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Updated 12/20/2011 5:02 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
The Scion and Toyota are going to be mechanically identical.

I'm talking about car ownership here. How many of these cars have you driven more than a cursory amount, much less had to own? I've owned plenty, and any German car is going to cost you $$$$ in maintenance. I used to drive an Audi S4 (B5). Some repairs are more than the cost of a reliable used car. My girlfriend used to drive an Audi TT. Same thing. She has a Jetta now, and they're expensive too.

What is a BWM?

An R34? Today? In the US? Seriously? Find one that isn't hand built (e.g. intended for road rather than track use) and/or hasn't been murdered in drags, etc. Then, find parts. Good luck.

I believe GT5 approximates handling fairly well. I've driven a good number of cars on-track IRL and in the game, and it's not night and day. I wonder why they'd have Top Gear sponsored races if that were the case. Of anyone, I respect the UK Top Gear people for their attention to the sport of driving. I also wonder why, if driving cars on this game is "NOTHING like real life", how many top GT drivers can translate those skills to real world racing skills. Methinks your head is somewhere it shouldn't be.

You may think this is aggressive, but frankly you come across as a jerk at times. It gets old.
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GT5 on the right track in my eyes so far after 2.0 (1.0 to me) version
Posted 12/20/2011 5:56 PM Post a reply Quote this post View DjWess's info
Also if you bought DLC cars, you can buy them again from the dealership if you so choose to. I'm in the making of making tunes for these cars. As an added bonus if you have the DLC along with the so called family plan, you can get multiple cars easy. I'd also like how in seasonal event if you get gold in all 5 races you get a car coupon. I think they may be on the right track here.
Have fun while you race others. If you don't why are you racing in the first place?
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Posted 12/20/2011 6:22 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
I agree, the addition of already purchased DLC to the dealership is great. I'm also with you on 2.0 being 1.0 in reality. It took a year to get the game into a production worthy state, but the moves now are certanly in the right direction. The family feature is very welcome, as are the car coupons. I need to see what the sound enhancements are about.
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Posted 12/20/2011 7:27 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Draghon's info
Well since I used to do repo, I've driven them a lot, hard and fast to 86 the owner from my tail, and since Scion IS Toyota, there's an overwhelming point that they would be built nearly the same... BMW, you know what I meant... With my driving style and the cars I've driven, none of the cars on the game handle correctly, I don't know, maybe you have more real world RACE experience than me? just my preference...
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Posted 12/20/2011 8:39 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
You made a categorical statement about how GT5 handling is nothing like real-world handling. That's an opinion rather than a preference. My preference is to drive in real life of course. Most of us would say that. My experience is mainly in track days at venues here in the Midwest, with a little auto-x sprinkled in. Quite different than repo getaways I'd say. Kudos to you if you manage to have a great memory for the handling characteristics of a car you drove in a getaway scenario. The cars I have driven at length on-track have been fairly well represented in GT5. Note that I said fairly well, both this and the first time. Identical would be extremely difficult to achieve with the vast array of types of cars on offer.

Everyone's own personal experience is their reality though, so it's unlikely that any hearts and minds are going to be changed here. That said, I think you're going against the prevailing winds with your assessment of GT5 vs. real-world handling. I should also note that I am speaking strictly of offline physics here. I have read in a few places complaints of online physics not matching up with offline. The theory of less calculations per second makes the most sense to me. I haven't done a hell of a lot of online racing myself, so I can't say for sure.

Do you drive GT5 with a wheel like one of the newer Fanatecs? I use the G27, and a reasonable FFB wheel makes a hell of a difference. A friend of mine has the Fanatec CSR. I've used it for about 5 hours, and its level of FFB fidelity is much more refined than my wheel. Everything I've heard about the new Fanatec CSR Elite is that it trumps anything short of very expensive ($1k+) wheels used on PC.

You said that Scions have their own dedicated race, and that comparing them to other cars is difficult at best. It's difficult to understand what you meant. Did you mean their own sister cars within Toyota (didn't think so)? If you meant other cars in general, I still don't understand the context of the statement. All these things said, what one considers "best" is still subjective. Mustangs are still riding on a live rear axle. In its latest iteration, Ford has done an exemplary job keeping rubber on the ground and providing grip, but it's still an inbuilt design limitation in my view.
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GTValut's tuning challenge idea. Hear me out.
Posted 12/22/2011 2:30 PM Post a reply Quote this post View DjWess's info
Since the release of the FT-86 I thought of a challenge.
It'll be the FT-86 10' vs. FT-86 12' vs. FT-86 09'.
Rules:
PP has to stay in between 500-520pp
HP must be 375hp or lower
Weight must range from 1100Kg on up
All tuning parts are allowed

This is what I have so far but any ideas for what track(s) we should do this on?
Also should we set up an online lobby for such an event?
Have fun while you race others. If you don't why are you racing in the first place?
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Posted 12/23/2011 2:29 AM Post a reply Quote this post View StigsTibecuadorianco's info
All of me wants to see a 5 lap race on the nord with those cars...
Only problem is its a nightmare to organise and actually keep entertaining, as Dj will dominate anything on the nord.
From my experiences on GT and my very limited driving experiences in real life all I want is a light car, I've had most fun in GT with the Elise RM, MX-5 and FT-86.
My full schedule B-spec guide and setups to the FGT (GT4)

100% all gold in GT4, GT5 and GT6. At last.

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Posted 12/24/2011 2:57 PM Post a reply Quote this post View GT2000's info
@: Draghon; Kerr. Is it just me or is it hot in here Roll Eyes Sarcastically ?

Real world driving vs GT5, forza or any other sim game? Pointless discussion imo, why? Simple, you can't die or sustain an injury from a crash in a racing game. Its a game at the end of the day....

Anyway enough of that sh!t, back to the game:
Not driven the new car in GT5 yet, been doing a few of the online event races as they are now giving out cars for winning all the events. Shame the AI is still to easy to beat even in an untuned car Frown

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My Replay Save files
Posted 12/24/2011 5:55 PM Post a reply Quote this post View DjWess's info
If you want them, shoot me an e-mail
but
You have to upload the files to your GT5 game save. There are no other ways around this(besides YouTube if you can get that to happen). Files may to be sent compressed ( I highly recommend this).
Have fun while you race others. If you don't why are you racing in the first place?
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PSN: old_man_xander
Joined: 12/27/2011
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Prelude
Updated 12/27/2011 2:41 PM Post a reply Quote this post View old_man_xander's info
I miss my 1990 Prelude Si - Of the 20+ cars i have owned over the years, that was the only one i had an emotional connection to , its a special machine

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Posted 12/28/2011 10:18 AM Post a reply Quote this post View NissanAddicted's info
I like that car, but I'm just gonna buy a Supra after college still saving Big Grin
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Posted 12/30/2011 4:52 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
@GT2000 - I suppose it can be couched in how you define "similar" when talking about video game racing vs. real life. That said, some things should be assumed out of the gate. For instance, I agree about sustaining injury from a crash, but that is an issue intrinsic to all video games. A realistic damage model obviates it some, but never completely as there is still no real price to pay.

Still, I don't see it as a pointless discussion. The physics models are advanced enough to help people acquire driving skills without fear of personal injury or having to have the money or connections for physical access. Nothing can wholly replace the physical experience, but I think it's an impressive technical feat nonetheless. Mind you, this is coming from a person who used to play Pole Position at the arcade as a child!

@old_man_xander - The 3rd generation Preludes are quite fun, FWD and all. I am running on stock rims, and have been interested in what some wider tires would do. That and a new suspension setup. Considering what I paid for the car though, I haven't been too keen on dumping a lot of money into it.

@NissanAddicted - Wow, better save up! Mid-1990's Supra Turbos are listed started in the low 20's, and going way up from there! And that's with typically 150k+ miles on them!
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Pole Position
Posted 12/30/2011 11:52 PM Post a reply Quote this post View DjWess's info
Kerr wrote:
@GT2000 - I suppose it can be couched in how you define "similar" when talking about video game racing vs. real life. That said, some things should be assumed out of the gate. For instance, I agree about sustaining injury from a crash, but that is an issue intrinsic to all video games. A realistic damage model obviates it some, but never completely as there is still no real price to pay.

Still, I don't see it as a pointless discussion. The physics models are advanced enough to help people acquire driving skills without fear of personal injury or having to have the money or connections for physical access. Nothing can wholly replace the physical experience, but I think it's an impressive technical feat nonetheless. Mind you, this is coming from a person who used to play Pole Position at the arcade as a child!

@old_man_xander - The 3rd generation Preludes are quite fun, FWD and all. I am running on stock rims, and have been interested in what some wider tires would do. That and a new suspension setup. Considering what I paid for the car though, I haven't been too keen on dumping a lot of money into it.

@NissanAddicted - Wow, better save up! Mid-1990's Supra Turbos are listed started in the low 20's, and going way up from there! And that's with typically 150k+ miles on them!

I actually have Namco arcade classics for PS1 and found Pole Position. It can get addicting real quick real fast.
Have fun while you race others. If you don't why are you racing in the first place?
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Posted 01/03/2012 10:56 AM Post a reply Quote this post View NissanAddicted's info
Kerr wrote:
@NissanAddicted - Wow, better save up! Mid-1990's Supra Turbos are listed started in the low 20's, and going way up from there! And that's with typically 150k+ miles on them!


True! I been finding some great deals and hope I can still get a good deal when I got the money. Big Grin
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Posted 01/13/2012 5:07 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Draghon's info
Check it out, I was reading the updated stuff for 2.02, one upgrade is now we can change rims on the standard cars...
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Posted 01/14/2012 2:26 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
I know, that's a great upgrade!
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Posted 09/05/2012 9:25 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Nachtjager's info
Kerr wrote:


You may think this is aggressive, but frankly you come across as a jerk at times. It gets old.


Hahaha

I finally picked up GT5 after seeing the XL Edition for 19 bucks. This will be the first GT I play where I have a wife and kids, so I wonder the level of devotion I will muster this go around.

After like 3 hours of downloading and installing, the 86 was already in the garage so I gave it a go. What a great little car! The balance on it is very fun. I don't think I'm even going to tune it for a while.

Is/was Fumes active at all with GT5, Kerr?

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Posted 09/12/2012 3:16 AM Post a reply Quote this post View Nachtjager's info
Holy shit, MFW this site is actually dead. I didn't even know it had competition.

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Posted 09/12/2012 8:32 AM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
There are lots of factors at play. Foremost, I have been vocal in my disappointment of the GT5 beta launch debacle, and its long extended deadlines. Even when the game was relatively bug-free, I was left with no different a core experience than any of the other GT games. The first games in the series were relatively innovative, but GT5 is just a retread of a retread wrapped in the technology & graphics du jour. Online play, ostensibly the single biggest feature of GT5, was years behind the curve. I have no passion for playing GT5. This factor more than anything contributes to low participation levels on GTVault. Interestingly, traffic levels themselves remain the same.

Many of the people who were major contributors, Fumes included, are now gone. He appealed to me to update the site for GT5, which I originally said I was not going to do. I eventually relented, and let him know directly that the site updates were complete. He's been on a few times since, but hasn't posted anything. Bit of a bad taste there, as he was integral in my decision to move forward with GT5 updates.

Another thing that has bothered me greatly is the general level of discourse. With the advent of texting and social networks, it seems that the youngest generation is likely not to learn how to express themselves in proper English. This simultaneously saddens and angers me. I don't see that getting any better, considering the GT series of games appeals mainly to the 15-24 demographic. I could amend the signup rules to state that one must use proper English (GTPlanet), but that would mean moderation and more forum like trappings that I have eschewed from day one.

On top of that, I have moved on from web development in my professional life. I'm still doing technical work, but it's all database related, and I have lost at least a bit of my passion for doing front end work. A few people over the years have approached with offers of help, but I simply am too much of a perfectionist to play well with most others. That, and I doubt anyone would have the required amount of free time on their hands.

I could've made this site into a capitalist venture, but that was never what I wanted either. I'm rambling now. The point is, there are a lot of reasons that GTVault is not what it once was. From my point of view, true competition outside of outright copying the idea isn't one of them.
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