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PSN: gtvault-com
Joined: 08/27/2001
Last on: 06/05/2017
Setups: 11
Posts: 1368
A couple enhancement ideas
Posted 06/01/2007 7:45 AM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
I've been thinking about a couple enhancement ideas and wanted to bounce them off of you guys to gauge interest. First, I know virtually all tuners will tweak and edit a setup over time, each time making a small adjustment to gauge it's effectiveness. I've been tracking and storing setup changes since September 6, 2006. That is, I am storing a "Setup History" of any new or changed setup since that date. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to open up the history for viewing, so that tuners can view previous versions of their setups? I can think of a lot of benefits, namely that of being able to see what changes were made to a setup over time.

With a feature like this, GTVault could track and display items that were changed from the prior version of a setup. For instance, let's say Tuner XYZ changes Front Spring Rate on their setup from 8.9 to 9.3. GTVault could highlight the 9.3 and display the prior 8.9 when you mouse over Front Spring Rate. GTVault could also potentially track Best Lap times over the history of a setup so the tuner can see what changes made the most/least impact. What do you think?

Another item I've been thinking about is private setups. I know a lot of tuners, especially those who compete in online racing, are very protective of their setups. The net effect is that some tuners choose not to enter their setups in GTVault since it would be out there for the world to see. What do you guys think of the ability to enter private setups that only you can view? I think this could be a very useful feature, especially when combined with the aforementioned Setup History idea.

I appreciate any and all feedback!
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Posted 06/01/2007 5:04 PM Post a reply Quote this post View bigracer's info
here's some feedback.

i dont care for tune history and i dont care for private setups. but that's only my 2 cents ...

what i WOULD care about is more traffic on the gtvault (it feels quite dead lately i must say), more search variables in the otherwise excellent advanced car search function, more information about latest changes to setups made, and a general post function to discuss the latest on tuning.

good luck!
steven
truly yours: bigracer@holland gt4 currently at 96.4%, >760 cars, >150M cr.
i like german road cars, speed 6+12 and hsc best

PSN: gtvault-com
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Posted 06/01/2007 9:44 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
More search variables... what are your suggestions?
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Idea
Posted 06/02/2007 6:52 PM Post a reply Quote this post View BlackOps's info
I see that so many tuners update there set-ups and post them I dont think anyone would care about the previous as long as the edited version is better since that is what everyone is seeking in the first place. I think it would be a good idea to maybe start a history and maybe a private set-up for GT5 whenever it comes to light. There will be hopefully some different makes and models therefore it should make for some good competition online and for those who never tuned cars like Ferraris or Lamborginis for instance.I would'nt fix anything that isn't broke you have enough content on here that anything else would be overkill. Maybe hold off until 5 comes out, this site is bangin as is!

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Updated 06/05/2007 2:20 AM Post a reply Quote this post View aspen's info
Hi Kerr,

It's been a while, I think that a hisory would be cool for a few reasons; sometimes people change the purpose of the car, change driving style, or just forgot what the hell they were doing in the first place LOL seriously though it would keep multi posts of the same set low.....

Private setup? I'm not sure of that, I use the vault as a data base for myself, but am willing to share what I do with others because of what you provide, if I was anal, I think I could write them down in a note pad.

My 1/2 cent

Thanks oh soo much for this site Kerr! Cool Smokin Thumbs Up

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Posted 06/06/2007 2:26 PM Post a reply Quote this post View therat1989's info
Hey Kerr..sorry I've not been playing GT alot lately but I didn't want to lose touch with you and the vault. I like the idea of seeing the setup history the private setup idea though..well why would they even put it on here if they were protective over it. None the less I'm sure it could work. Anyways I'm currently playing Forza 2 alot..I know I know I've transferred to the dark side.....anyways and was wondering if you knew of any Forza setup site? Anyways good to see this place is still going strong. later
therat1989

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Posted 06/09/2007 11:35 AM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
@bigracer - What additional search variables are you looking for on the Advanced Car Search?

I have been formulating an Advanced Setup Search, but haven't started the programming work yet. It will work much like the Advanced Car Search, but obviously will return setup records instead. You'll be able to search for things like track, tuner, etc. Is that more along the lines of what you're thinking?

@BMWishes4jay - Thanks for the feedback. The history is already being captured, it just isn't being used in any meaningful way Smile

@aspen - Yes it has been awhile, how's it going? You're right, I have seen people start a "new" setup because they wanted to retain the original numbers for safekeeping. That's one of the major reasons I started thinking about a history function.

@therat1989 - Forza 2! In my eyes, you're only on the dark side if you don't come back to GT! How are you liking the game? I read an article that said setups can be made private on Xbox Live, potentially enhancing the trade value of a car with a good track record. That makes me wonder if setups will be "portable" in GT5. What I mean by this is the ability to download setups like replays can be downloaded in GT HD. I still see issues as setups obviously require a specific a equipment set on a car in order to be valid. It would be hard to disassociate a setup from a specific car because of this. I don't have an X360 yet, but I am real close to getting one now that Forza 2 is out.

I don't know of any Forza setup sites. I remember looking for one and not finding jack when I was playing the original Forza. At the time I was toying with the idea of making a "Forza Vault", but in the end I didn't have the time or motivation to code it. It's pretty hard making a site like this, so I don't see it happening outside of a forum (an inadequate solution) unless a programmer who happens to love the game and has a lot of time on their hands steps up to fill the void.

Well it looks like pretty much everyone so far doesn't see much benefit to the private setups thought I had. To go into more depth, I was thinking of it in tandem with the history feature we've been discussing. There are a number of online racers over at places like gtplanet.net that will not disclose their setups until after competitions, and (I believe) sometimes not at all. My point is that some tuners don't use GTVault specifically because everything they post is automatically in the public domain. I'm just trying to think of tuners who are aware of GTVault but for whatever reason haven't been given to using the setup posting system.

I had another thought along the lines of setup history. Let's say you have a setup tuned for a specific track and you're recording a best lap time along with your changes. Would it be nice to see a quick summary of the timestamp posted and the change in lap times? Something like:

Date Posted | Lap Time | Difference
03/06/2007 | 1:11.023 | n/a
03/09/2007 | 1:10.698 | -0.325
03/12/2007 | 1:10.942 | +0.244
03/18/2007 | 1:10.417 | -0.525

I hope everyone has a good weekend. I've been sick for like three weeks and I'm finally coming out of it. Good thing as I have an all day rock concert today!
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Lap Times...........
Posted 06/10/2007 3:06 PM Post a reply Quote this post View BTWhite37's info
Kerr, In my opinion, you've hit it with the "Lap Time" thing. You mentioned a format like the "Advanced Car Search". Might it be better served with a format like the "Top Ten Lists" where the top times for each of the tracks are presented by GTVault Member Sign-on? You could link it to info like setup no, car name, and/or a link to the setup used, vice a bar graph like used on the Top Ten List.

Just "throwin' out a bone here"............ and a post here in order to keep up with this conversation.

Racin' the F1 series,........ back to race #4, Brian
"Half measures availed us nothing", BBoAA.
- All setups and tuning for the Logitech Driving Force Pro and/or G25. - 100% Complete, Finally!... and on to GT5!!! @PS3 as "BTWhite37"

PSN: gtvault-com
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Posted 06/11/2007 10:37 AM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
Actually I was talking about two different features if you will.

The "history" feature and associated lap time history would be viewable on a per-setup basis.

The Advanced Setup Search is another separate idea I've had for some time, which is basically the Advanced Car Search only geared towards finding setups. That being said, and lap times being fully self-reported, a top ten list dedicated to them may end up being a place unscrupulous people abuse. There is the argument that those people can be ignored, but I believe in providing the least opportunity possible for "fraud". Big Grin
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Posted 06/11/2007 10:31 PM Post a reply Quote this post View therat1989's info
Forza 2 is great..but is missing alot to make it superb. I personally think that when GT5 comes out it will blow Forza out of the water. There are some really innovative things in Forza but not too much that Polyphony digital can't take on. and I have bought forzagarage.com to start a Forza setup site..lol..my friend said the code is gonna be a *****..lol

Anyways back to GT...the lap time thing has caught my attention as well. I hope to see some of these additions soon. I'll gladly pop back in for a setup or two. Smile

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Posted 06/11/2007 10:44 PM Post a reply Quote this post View NSXType-R's info
I have recently gone back on GTVault after I had some free time after finals. I don't mind the extra changes you'd like to make, the more the merrier.

However, I do have a suggestion. I'm not sure how to present it, but if you edit your setup, it goes unnoticed unless you post a completely new setup, which would be a waste, because the old setup was maybe inferior to the new one. Is there a way to bring attention that change? I sometimes edit my setups a while after I have posted it because I was either sidetracked by a race or by another car. By that time, no one sees it at all. Any ideas any one?

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Posted 06/12/2007 7:05 AM PST
Posted 06/12/2007 10:13 AM Post a reply Quote this post View ukproracer's info
Lap Times would be a great addition.

I more than agree with BTWhite37. Lap times would give us all a shot at the best and we would be able to guage how we are doing againest other. There should be a list of minimum lap time required to win each race. There might be a lap time and an estimated number of laps till pitting is required for this setup.

I use the setup Vault and notice lap time are not posted. Sometimes I wonder if they ran the car before posting.

As far as history of setup edit, I personally say no. I update for a reason and it's usually a flaw or upgrade to make the car better. I would think editing a setup would bring it back to New Setups on top.

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Posted 06/12/2007 6:57 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
That's a good point about editing setups and the new edits not being in the "New Setups" section. It has always been based on the newest posted setups, meaning the "brand new" ones that haven't yet been edited. I think that would be a pretty easy change to make. I would probably work it like this:

Both new/edited setups, sorted by post/edit date with the newest one first.

therat1989 - That's a good domain name. So you're going to do something like GTVault? If so, I wish you guys luck! Big Grin You're one of the oldest active members here, so you can remember all the enhancements and changes this site has gone through in the last 5 years. Let me know how things go.

Re: Lap times - I'd like to clarify that I don't intend lap times to be a "Top 10" item. The reason behind this is the checks and balances required to make sure people aren't lying just aren't worth it. My thought on the lap times was to be able to compare lap times for various versions of a given setup, so it ties in directly with the history enhancement I've been talking about.

I know there are mixed thoughts on the history item, but I maintain there is value in knowing what has been changed to make a setup "better". That kind of information may help new tuners see what kind of tweaks are made throughout the tuning process. Additionally, it would basically be a self maintaining log of changes made to setups... pretty handy when compared to a paper/pen method if you ask me. Either way, no one will be forced to look at the history as I intend to make it a link from the main setup page. The newest version of a setup would always be displayed when a setup link is clicked.
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Posted 06/13/2007 10:56 AM Post a reply Quote this post View therat1989's info
Thanks Kerr. I will need alot of luck with this one, but I think it will quite a success. Who knew the vault would become as big as it is today? Its grown so much since I first joined. Its amazing.
BTW my friend wants to tell you this..."the code for this kind of website is a *****"..He's having problems...lol

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Posted 06/15/2007 12:21 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
therat1989 wrote:
Thanks Kerr. I will need alot of luck with this one, but I think it will quite a success. Who knew the vault would become as big as it is today? Its grown so much since I first joined. Its amazing.
BTW my friend wants to tell you this..."the code for this kind of website is a *****"..He's having problems...lol


You're right, these sites are very difficult to program. The only advice I would offer (not that you were asking anyway, right? Smile) is to validate all user input. Test your "setup" form for every car, making sure a user can't put something in that they shouldn't. That alone will set your site apart from the rest. I've seen a number of GT setup sites over the years. They either used a forum to post setups or attempted to do something like GTVault with a customized setup form. The forum solution isn't a solution at all IMO and leaves the most opportunity for bad data. Those that went the customized form route typically released a half baked product. I recall in, particular, a Flash based setup form that would allow me to input letters into fields like "Shock Bound". How valuable is setup data when users can basically put in whatever they want?
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Posted 06/15/2007 1:01 PM Post a reply Quote this post View therat1989's info
I agree completely..I hate forum based setup guides. Its so difficult to navigate and find particular setups. I like to have a complete list of cars and see all the setups that everyone has put in. Its so much easier.

PSN: MastrGT
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Posted 06/19/2007 12:27 AM Post a reply Quote this post View MasterGT's info
To be frank, I don't see much use of old settings if the newest one is better.
I'm all for progress and change, but it has to mean something.

Someone else's times here wouldn't mean much to me either because it's not me driving.
The GT4 set-up sheet would let me check my own progress, which are what settings are all about.

As soon as I read about updated settings I thought about getting them listed separately, but I see you've got that one covered.
Cheers,

MasterGT

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Posted 06/19/2007 7:14 AM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
Thanks to everyone for their feedback. Based on your collective thoughts, I am not going to pursue a setup history or private setup features at this time. The last thing we want is features that go unused. Smile I have, since I released the Advanced Car Search, received requests for an Advanced Setup Search. Today there are only two ways to get to the setup lists: from the car lists or a specific tuner's page. I may pursue an Advanced Setup Search as I believe there is value in having more search options for locating setups.

For example, an Advanced Setup Search could be used to locate setups with any combination of Track, HP range, post date range, Drivetrain, etc. Basically any attribute of a setup is a potential candidate. What are everyone's thoughts? I'd like both general feedback and, if the feature is something most people would like, what specifics you'd like to search on .

MasterGT - I had thought of displaying updated setups separately from new setups myself. I'd hate to push them down below in another section, so if I do something of that nature it would probably come along as part of a redesign.
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Posted 06/19/2007 3:55 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Dominator46's info
I have a good idea.it will be very usefull if you could include a picture of the car in the set ups.i would love this and i think many others would like this.
Keep up the good work!!!! Drooling

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Currently Online?
Posted 06/21/2007 1:05 PM Post a reply Quote this post View ukproracer's info
I suspect many have not logged off and the majority of the visitors are actually off.

I would like to see an automatic log off if you are not using for an hour or so. This will give others a view of who's actually watching or reviewing.

I see other sights have something like it because I used a couple of links and for I was the only visitor with no other members logged in.

PSN: gtvault-com
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Currently Online
Posted 06/21/2007 5:51 PM Post a reply Quote this post View Kerr's info
ukproracer - The server keeps track of sessions automatically with a 30 minute timeout, regardless of whether a user clicks the "Logout" link. What you're seeing with the high number of "Visitors" is search engine crawlers. I don't currently store the user's browser type in the session. I'll take a look and see if filtering the search engines out won't take too much overhead.

Dominator46 - I agree, car pictures would be nice. Everything has tradeoffs though. I'm currently able to host GTVault out of my pocket without annoying users with advertisements. Some people may not mind them, but the bottom line is they annoy me and they slow websites down, sometimes considerably. The main reason I can do that is that I host little media such as car images and videos. Hosting media files causes bandwidth usage to skyrocket, and hosting costs follow right along with that.
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